Black Panther Release

[Arkady]

T'challa AKA The Black Panther

This is the first release of The Black Panther, I've had three creators help me for the past 12 months and i've been slowly working him, bit by bit,
i felt the need to keep as much Vibranium influence as i could, with his specials, and make him as althetic and speedy,
thanks goes out to Z999, HyperVoiceActing, nicotinefist, and alan joestar (with some of the start sprites and basework, and conceptions that helped me make this posssible)
also thank harbinger for aquiring of the sound files for black panther from MUA








Download

/\ Here /\

[Macaulyn97]

Interesting! I'm totally checking this out!

[HyperVoiceActing]

I would mention how you got my username wrong (again) but this was when I was a spriter so I guess it's fine.

Will download soon

[animaraz]

Wooow!!! Amazing job! Thanks men, very thanks

[Superjoker]

 

Thank You Arch!

[Xfields]

quite impressive
congrats on the release

[dev.]

He's the first black superhero, is he? Good work, fellas. 

[Z999]

Nice to see i'm not credited in any way, decent attitude considering most of the legs and a few other things are from Havok.

[HyperVoiceActing]

Nice to see i'm not credited in any way, decent attitude considering most of the legs and a few other things are from Havok.

Oops. I can fix that if you want.

[O Ilusionista]

You should

[HyperVoiceActing]

And I did 

Ark, you should fix it at MMV as well

[Z999]

Yeah that's a bit better, thks hyper ; but it's more a matter of why (it's not like i want the char to be taken down or anything).

I keep seeing things like that in Abomination intro, Morph jump kick or the Daredevil-Havok headswap, and none discussed with me or credited.

Since i passed the sprites directly to Arkady you'd figure he would be well aware i'm the one who sprited them ; which makes me wonder how he could forgot to credit me (giving permission to finish a character is not the same as giving permission to use the sprites of a character as a base, and even if that was the case, giving proper credits is still a thing that should be done).

And he also knows i find these sprites bad and would not be especially happy to see them used in so many wips (would have i been asked, i would have sprited something better for Ab & Morph).

So yeah, just kinda curious actually, and slightly annoyed.

[Arkady]

Sorry if i had offended Z999, by not crediting him on his past work on havok
(actually i think i did)
these sprites used for black panther is a vast mix of character bases deejay, Cyclops , venom, cable and yes havok, i felt that crediting z999 on every Cyclops/ havok sprites used for a few basic movements should be so, and since i had worked on havok, and built black panther without his actual help
kinda defeats the purpose of crediting, but yes you did create a sheet that havok was based on so some mention is due, i do ask creators when i complete a released character if they can be used in future works, no one has told me no yet, and i do remember, that you were ok with it as long as ,  could use the havok character to update to a new costume you wanted to create for him, i also had done a whole lot of editing to it also, so not all credit is about permission for the base to be used, if this is how you feel about this situation, i will from now on not use havok as a base, although works that have been already created will need to be reworked to accommodate this, had i been made aware, that you were not actually open for me to use a creation we had both slaved over, i would not have used havok at all, its just as easy to rework cyclops, as for the Abomb & morph jump kick, was a direct result from us being ok with it, I'm not sure why now there is an issue, but blowing up now 3years after the character has been released and thinking all the sprites were done by you solely isn't cool
I'm not going to re-invent the wheel when i had worked on a great set of tyres, I'm not annoyed when i see luke cage used to make zombie powerman
its just how i see things

[Blagoy]

Make update on him soon with more effects intro with panthers and more and more you know what he need .
Black Panther look nice good work .

[Arkady]

That's a great idea, blagoy, any chance when you do finish it, you can send it to us so we can have it in the released character, i love the work you did with caliban, and those intros were awesome

[Blagoy]

King need throne

[Z999]

I think you're missing the point. This is not about Havok, i never went back (and never wil) on the permission i gave you so the "blowing up now 3years after the character has been released" is totally out of line.

i do ask creators when i complete a released character if they can be used in future works

Not in my case, in fact i never heard of you ever again since you released Havok at mmv. i did say that had 100% liberty on making your version of Havok as you wanted him to be, and that's it. Let's not reinvent how things went.

i also had done a whole lot of editing to it also, so not all credit is about permission

Sure, never said you didn't do any work ; smart pal & tweaks on the head but from what i saw not exactly a lot of frankenspriting, which is what i'm talking about.

its just as easy to rework cyclops

Which is why i don't understand that you didn't. Actually it would have been faster, more original & better quality wise.

as for the Abomb & morph jump kick, was a direct result from us being ok with it, I'm not sure why now there is an issue

See previous post, if was asked i would have said "nah these sprites are no good, i'll make you something better". But eck, why bother to ask the spriter his opinion when the char is already released.

these sprites used for black panther is a vast mix of character bases deejay, Cyclops , venom, cable and yes havok, i felt that crediting z999 on every Cyclops/ havok sprites used for a few basic movements should be so, and since i had worked on havok, and built black panther without his actual help
kinda defeats the purpose of crediting

Then why do you credit anyone at all ? Either do it respecting everyone or simply don't do it.
I didn't "help" on Daredevil but i can still see the char is made 90% of my frankenspritings but likewise for those "few" movements i don't need to be mentioned ? Okay. Right. Great, very creative of you.

I'm not going to re-invent the wheel when i had worked on a great set of tyres, I'm not annoyed when i see luke cage used to make zombie powerman
its just how i see things

Simple thing, you behave how you want and so do i. Your choice is not any better than mine & vice versa, we simply have very different opinions on what this community is a bit lacking nowdays. I'd think a little more respect & less hypocrisy would be preferable but whatever i'm just one individual and you made your point.

[HyperVoiceActing]

I actually have to agree with Z here. You really should be more considerate of some people's work.

Also, I think you should use those panthers as strikers as well. But that's just me

[Arkady]

I think the "point" that's being made is that your a spriter, and you are behaving as if i don't know how to, or want my work to be better, and that i need you to make them better for me, why else bring up abomination? and morph I'm not even sure what your talking about there, as O illu asked for some animations for his morph, and i said no problems, (as really there was none, you had said yes to me working on havok) not like he resprited to be be anything else but a havok animation, for morph

either way ill re-sprite all animations to not include any of havok base, in black panther in his next update, this way you won't be credited for my sub standard work, 

there is no reason to harbour concerns obviously we both had a difference in what could be used in future works, its obvious that its nothing, and  i had repeatedly pmd you regarding updates and releases regarding havok back when he was released and before so.
by the way i did a lot more than tweaks to the head, i could say 40% of the animations were new off of Cyclops, sprites  by me and all mostly new heads, intros, and many more
you make it sound like all i did was code it

[Z999]

I said "more original & better quality wise". Stop being dramatic 5mn, this has nothing to do with your spriting abilities or the level of your work.
I frankly don't care about if you know how to/want to, and what i said is simply a valid point, a fact.
No matter how i look at it it would have been more original using original frankenspritings (duh) and i believe i can judge the quality of those i did better than anyone (i'm not talking about those you did, dunno why you keep bringing that up). Basically that's called feedback.

either way ill re-sprite all animations to not include any of havok base, in black panther in his next update

Once again i don't care, do what you want, i was just curious about why you didn't feel like giving just a bit of credit. I must say i'm impressed that one simple line in a readme/topic would hurt you so much. To quote yourself you're behaving like a coder and seems to think it took me 5 hours to sprite Havok (when in fact it was a lot of time on many years) and that because i let you do some work on it too now it's all yours. Seriously that's a crappy logic.

40% of the animations were new off of Cyclops, sprites  by me and all mostly new heads, intros, and many more

40% ? Seriously, stop before it turns childish & we compare spritesheets. And anyway once again it's not about havok, it's about the sprites i KNOW i made -NOT THE ONE YOU MADE- and that i can see being used without even any form of COURTESY, being send to other people without even ASKING if i don't mind.

Oh well, if you can't understand, i won't waste anymore time talking to a wall.

[Arkady]

Who did i send your sheet to?
i think your making it up, to start some flame war, especially on a release thread for another character, if you want continue this more my pm box is waiting, but ill be getting back to respriting that work you claim I've stolen
i don't want to upset you any more than you already are
(and you've now been credited, but only for the original base work)

[Z999]

Arrrh please stop playing dumb ^^
If i cared about flamewars don't you think that the first thing i would do would be to request that Havok is taken down from MMV or go real berserk at you ? Keep the forum war/ego stuff out of it, i just asked for a bit of courtesy & an explanation to see where you stand on that matter. Hardly qualifies.

And it's better to settle things like directly, without pm, at least that way things are more clear. Less hypocritical. But anyway it's settled now that i have an answer, end of discussion -agreed-.

(Btw i'm not angry and not exactly you "stole" anything, dunno how i can make it more clear without entering a time loop or becoming a broken record.)

[Arkady]

still haven't answered me on who you think I sent your sheet work to?

btw why would havok be needing to be taken down from mmv, or imt or anywhere
the character was made by us (you me and rgop), no one site owns what we make, we all have the right to update him, it's not like he is only mine and that's it.
 I don't see why there would be a need for it to be taken away from any specific site
(hypothetically if you were mad about havok, that is) it make no difference where its released
same as any of the work I help create, I generally release it at IMT and MMV, it's the only two sites I frequent, and if I want feedback, its where I frequent, that's where I generally release the characters

aside from all that, i'm not angry at you, just don't want any more trouble, so like I said i'm going to re-sprite all animations that have been a direct usage of havok, it's the least I can do, since I overlooked your base contribution, (even though I have now credited you, and will update the readme to also reflect soon)
I hold no grudge, if anything I love your work on havok, I found it such a waste to be only used for him hence why black panther fit so well when franken-sprited with dee jay (to me that is)

[Hellzone]

downloaded, very fun character, thank you for making this character 

[Z999]

still haven't answered me on who you think I sent your sheet work to?

Okay i'll try to be as clear as possible for the last time. I never said that, dunno why you decided i did. I'm talking about the Abomination & Morph. Which is not a very important thing, just a few sprites but was quite revelant to what i was trying to explain.

Let's look very closely at the released havok. You'll see it has at least two names next to it, yours and mine. So when giving the ok to other people for using the sprites, it would have been better to see if i was okay of too.

Cause you know, both those animations i'm totally not proud of (they were pretty much from learn spriting basics time, like 8 years ago), and if i was asked, i would have gladly remade them better (actually i was going to sprite a move or two for Morph but when i saw the jump kick i kinda lost my motivation so i ended spriting a thing or two for another wip).

The both of us made the character, the both of us should have their say in that kind of matter. That 's all i've been saying. When something is made by more than one people, it's just courtesy to at least try to ask & credit everyone.

btw why would havok be needing to be taken down from mmv

That why i said "IF" i was trying to start a stupid war. Which i ain't. So i dunno. All in all that was a bad example considering that's something i would never say even if really pissed off and because i really agree with this :

the character was made by us (you me and rgop), no one site owns what we make

As for the rest, it's as i said, as long as things are correctly credited, you can do what you want, update the sprites or leave it as they are. I do think as a general rule that more originality is always better but i have no problem with both options.