Lie Meiling by Ricepigeon & I updated (also Hong Meiling)

[Darkflare]

http://ricepigeon.webs.com/

Neither of them have AI.

Well, this particular update was up a few days ago, it just wasn't announced here(Probably because she's not a comic book character).

I remembered I had an account here, so might as well.

[Kazander13]

I didn't think I would enjoy this character as much as I did.  No glaring design bugs from about 60 matches and I did adjust the life to normal standards (1000).  The influence from Akuma is clear, but I like that you kept her style from the source games.  Overall, this is a solid addition.  Observations are below:

-No need to really have 850 life in my opinion unless this was intended from an overall game build.
-Standing X will infinite in the corner after any juggle/launch.
-Can also infinite after a throw in the corner ex:  Throw, 8+Z, 8+Z, 8+Z etc
-I saw a few moves which looked like they may be infinites based off of her corner juggle game but I didn't test them out due to time constraints.  You may want to look into her overall juggle capabilities.

Again, thanks for the hard work and I look forward to any updates.

[Darkflare]

-No need to really have 850 life in my opinion unless this was intended from an overall game build.

Intentional. Like Akuma, Lie has lots of offensive tools to get in, pressure and mess with the opponent. The reduced health is meant to balance her impressive offensive capabilities.

-Standing X will infinite in the corner after any juggle/launch.
-Can also infinite after a throw in the corner ex:  Throw, 8+Z, 8+Z, 8+Z etc
-I saw a few moves which looked like they may be infinites based off of her corner juggle game but I didn't test them out due to time constraints.  You may want to look into her overall juggle capabilities.

We had someone tell us about some other infinites that were found. Her juggling system is being overhauled and we're hoping this solves her infinites problems. So far, the new juggling system seems to solve the infinites we were told, so hopefully it will resolve these as well.


Expect an update in the coming days to solve the infinites as well as other things.

[Darkflare]

Updated. Rice also updated the original China as well


Lie changes:

(click to show/hide)

==========================================
Version 2013.04.27 (2.0.1)
==========================================
Changes from version 2013.03.31

- Juggle System revamped
- Actual throw is now delayed a bit.
- Throw can now be teched out of. See Throw in move section for details.
- Added ability to instant airdash.
- Hitvelocities slightly reduced on all normals.
- Hitstun on j.Y and j.Z reduced.
- j.Z: Hitbox size of both hits reduced.
- j.Z: Startup increased by 3 frames
- j.Z: Number of active frames on first hit reduced.
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Command changed to Fwd+Z
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Recovery time increased. Damage slightly increased.
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Recovery animation changed. Effects added.
- Fwd+Y Overhead: Can no longer cancel into other normals
- Fwd+Y Overhead: Startup time increased by 5 frames
- Animations for Standing Light and Standing Medium attacks switched. Startup & recovery adjusted accordingly.
- Dashes can no longer be cancelled into normals on first frame.
- Standing Medium: Forward velocity removed.
- Standing Medium: Frame advantage changed to +4/-1 on hit/block.
- Crouching Medium: Recovery time reduced by 1 frame.
- Crouching Medium: Frame advantage changed to +1/-2 on hit/block.
- Four Star Sword: Z version now pushes Lie backward

- Colorless "Dichromatic Spark": Spellcard text added for both versions.
- Colorless "Dichromatic Spark": Startup animation for air version changed.
- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Spellcard text added.
- Piercing Heaven "Youkai Armageddon": Command added to readme file. Spellcard text added.
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": Grabbing animation on hit changed
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": Now plays different sound if opponent is KO'ed.
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": New winpose added if move KOs opponent.

Hong changes:

(click to show/hide)

===================================
04/27/13 - Version 2013.04.27
===================================

Changes from version 6.0:

- Meiling is now 1.0 exclusive
- Life decreased 1000 -> 900
- s.Medium (5y): Animation changed. Now launches opponent on hit.
- s.Medium (5y): Can now be jump cancelled on hit before frame 17
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Y (6y)
- s.Heavy (5z): Animation timings adjusted
- s.Heavy (5z): Now knocks opponent down on hit.
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Z (6z)
- c.Light (2x): Animation timing & hitboxes adjusted. Damage increased.
- c.Medium (2y): Damage increased. Animation timing adjusted. No longer hits OTG. No longer trips opponent.
- c.Heavy (2z): Changed to DF+Z command normal. New sweep kick c.Heavy added in its place.
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Down + z (3z): old c.Heavy/2z, no longer causes wallslam.
- j.Light (8x): Active frames increased. Damage increased
- j.Medium (8y): Animation changed. Damage increased.
- j.Heavy (8z): Animation timing changed. No longer causes wallbounce.
- New Command Normal: Down + Fwd + any attack in air (3x, 3y, or 3z): Divekick.


- Fragrant Wave: Command changed to QCB+x/y/z (214x/y/z)
- Fragrant Wave: Horizontal range of projectile hitbox decreased.
- Fragrant Wave: X version is now a fake out. Y version now hits 3 times, Z version now hits 5 times.
- Fragrant Wave: Z version now has lower body invincibility during startup.
- Fragrant Wave: Z version no longer requires 500 power.
- Tremor Kick: Startup increased on all versions. All versions now deal identical damage.
- Tremor Kick: X version no longer knocks opponent down. Recovery time increased.
- Tremor Kick: Z version recovery time decreased. Now causes crumple on hit.
- Tremor Kick: Z version no longer requires 500 power.
- Tremor Kick: All versions no longer hit OTG.
- Tremor Kick: All versions now have the same hitbox size range.

- New Special: Cyclone Light Step (QCF+x/y/z, 236x/y/z)
- New Special: Searing Rainbow Fist (xxxx yyyy or zzzz)
- New Special: Scarlet Cannon (DP+x/y/z, 623x/y/z)

- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Animation is now a 3 part attack.
- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Command changed to QCFx2+atk (236236x/y/z).
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Command changed to QCBx2+atk (214214x/y/z)
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Is now a lvl 1 super
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Unblockable effect removed. See spellcard section for more details.

- New Spellcard: Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm" - QCF,QCF+x+y+z (236236xyz)

- Removed Specials:
   Sky Dragon Kick
   Crescent Kick
   Descending Flower Slam

- Removed Spellcards:
   Rainbow Sign "Radiant Rainbow Fist"
   Qi Sign "Star Pulse Shot"
   Tremor Sign "Earth Dragon Wave"
   Falling Strike "Mountain Splitter"
   Li's Rage "Zhenfan's Way of the Dragon"
   Hundred Fist "Northern Mountain Breaker"
   Star Qi "Star Pulse Earth-Moving Shot"

- Custom cornerpush implemented
- Damage scaling redone
- All voices changed to english.
- Implemented Target Combos. See Movelist for details.
- Juggle system redone.
- Throw redone.
- Throw can now be teched out of.

[Kazander13]

Thanks for the update!  I played around in practice for about 45 minutes.  Observations are below.

//Move List-Normals//
-(Dive Kick)Might want to list in your readme that Dive Kick can only be used from a forward jump, unless that wasn't the intention.

-(J+Z):  The hitbox for the second hit seems just a little bit horizontally wide to the left given that she comes up at an angle.  I may be just a bit nit-picky on that though.

-(Throw)  I noticed you reigned in a lot of infinites.  This one however is still working: After a throw or bounce from the wall you can still use ones I listed in my last post including using dash+A to get them cornered. 


//Move List-Supers//
-H. Axe Kick does 145 in game but states 140 in the move list.

(H. Axe Kick)   Can infinite by doing Axe Kick, Violet Cannon, Monochrome Hurricane, repeat
-Can also infinite with any other move by using Axe Kick to life them off of the ground as long as the last move used wasn't Axe Kick.  i.e.  you can't use two Axe kicks in a row, but Axe Kick (H), Seven Star Sword (L), Axe Kick (H), repeat etc.  I believe the ground hit properties to be the cause.

//Art//
-I like the new effect on Violet Cannon

That's all I have for now from just being in practice.  I'll let you know if there's more when I run her through arcade/coop/vs.

Thanks again for the updates!

[Darkflare]

Thanks for the update!  I played around in practice for about 45 minutes.  Observations are below.

//Move List-Normals//
-(Dive Kick)Might want to list in your readme that Dive Kick can only be used from a forward jump, unless that wasn't the intention.

We did.

* D + Y (2y) - Divekick [A]
- Lie will cancel all movement for a divekick downward. Hits OTG. Can only be done if Lie has forward air movement.

I'm going to assume however that the movelist document doesn't state that, so I'll yell to Rice about it.

-(J+Z):  The hitbox for the second hit seems just a little bit horizontally wide to the left given that she comes up at an angle.  I may be just a bit nit-picky on that though.

Looks fine. It's set up this way for practicality purposes.

-(Throw)  I noticed you reigned in a lot of infinites.  This one however is still working: After a throw or bounce from the wall you can still use ones I listed in my last post including using dash+A to get them cornered.

We were told of a bug regarding the bounce properties which I'll explain below.
However, Dash+A after a throw isn't an infinite but a whole nother problem entirely. Lie's standing and crouching normals are air unblockable and throwing them in a corner like this is actually putting the opponent in a position where Lie can simply smack them with air unblockables with little ways to escape. We'll have to either make them blockable or find a way to make them blockable in situations like this.

//Move List-Supers//
-H. Axe Kick does 145 in game but states 140 in the move list.

I believe Rice tested these on KFM. It will do more on characters with lower defense.
Otherwise, that may have been an old value Rice forgot to update.

(H. Axe Kick)   Can infinite by doing Axe Kick, Violet Cannon, Monochrome Hurricane, repeat
-Can also infinite with any other move by using Axe Kick to life them off of the ground as long as the last move used wasn't Axe Kick.  i.e.  you can't use two Axe kicks in a row, but Axe Kick (H), Seven Star Sword (L), Axe Kick (H), repeat etc.  I believe the ground hit properties to be the cause.

It's because Axe Kick C's ground bounce properties were resetting juggle points. I believe this was the case for wall bounce as well. This has been fixed for the next update and you'll only be able to do one ground bounce per combo next time.

[RicePigeon]

We did.

I'm going to assume however that the movelist document doesn't state that, so I'll yell to Rice about it.

The word document? Yes, that needs updating to include all her basics, anyhow. Same for Hong.

However, Dash+A after a throw isn't an infinite but a whole nother problem entirely. Lie's standing and crouching normals are air unblockable and throwing them in a corner like this is actually putting the opponent in a position where Lie can simply smack them with air unblockables with little ways to escape. We'll have to either make them blockable or find a way to make them blockable in situations like this.

With the juggle system, this shouldnt happen. She should only be able to get two Dash+As in before they start whiffing unless you reset the opponent (in which case it wouldnt count as a combo). I'll take a look though just to make sure.

I believe Rice tested these on KFM. It will do more on characters with lower defense.
Otherwise, that may have been an old value Rice forgot to update.

Technically both. The ground bounce adds 5 damage, I'll be sure to remove that.

It's because Axe Kick C's ground bounce properties were resetting juggle points. I believe this was the case for wall bounce as well. This has been fixed for the next update and you'll only be able to do one ground bounce per combo next time.

The wallbounce shouldnt reset the juggle points like that but I'll take a look.

[Kazander13]

Finally got a chance to test Hong a bit.  I have only run her in practice and arcade and will update if I find bugs in other modes later.  Observations are below:

//Game Play//(44 Arcade battles, 50 minutes in practice)
Pretty easy to jump into after playing Lie.  She has a unique blend of moves which makes her pretty versatile, especially in the wake up arena.  She has some similar infinite issues (a few are listed below) that Lie had but I know you guys are working on those anyway.  Overall I would say that she has a strong air and wakeup game, but lacks real damage on the ground until you can get a launcher off though she can be capable of some devious ground/corner mixups.

//Normal Moves//
-The weak attack (A by your notation) has too much push back preventing natural combos.  i.e. A>B>C>special (Also see medium attack)
-The medium attack (B by your notation) is awkward and prevents natural combos. Even though it chains with C; Changing it to Back+B or removing the launch properties would be nicer.  This move can also juggle indefinitely by itself.

//Special Moves//
-(Scarlet Cannon)Can infinite on the weak version of scarlet cannon by itself with quick timing.
-(Fragment Wave)  I love this move artistically and in terms of game play; it has great wakeup potential.

//Hypers//
(Fierce Tiger's Strength)  I love the idea on this one and it's well balanced in terms of the concept.  Not so certain I would use it over Roc's fist for an equal amount of power and guaranteed setups, but I didn't go crazy testing this out since normal ground combos were difficult.

//Art//
No graphic glitches of note.  Animations are nice and fluid like her counterparts.

//Sound//
All clean.

//AI// (10 AI battles; Lvl 1 6/10 wins)
None at the moment, but you stated as much.

I love the attention to detail on both her and Lie.  You guys are paying attention to frame data and recovery which not every does.  Thanks for the release and I look forward to their future updates.

[Darkflare]

//Game Play//(44 Arcade battles, 50 minutes in practice)
Pretty easy to jump into after playing Lie.  She has a unique blend of moves which makes her pretty versatile, especially in the wake up arena.  She has some similar infinite issues (a few are listed below) that Lie had but I know you guys are working on those anyway.  Overall I would say that she has a strong air and wakeup game, but lacks real damage on the ground until you can get a launcher off though she can be capable of some devious ground/corner mixups.

Really? They share normals, but their overall playstyles are completely different.
Oh yes, those infinites. Rice said he accidently left some remnants of the old juggle system, hence the infinites.

//Normal Moves//
-The weak attack (A by your notation) has too much push back preventing natural combos.  i.e. A>B>C>special (Also see medium attack)
-The medium attack (B by your notation) is awkward and prevents natural combos. Even though it chains with C; Changing it to Back+B or removing the launch properties would be nicer.  This move can also juggle indefinitely by itself.

Lie has some issues with pushback regarding regular ABC chaining as well, so it's something we're trying out different things to see what works.
I see what you mean regarding 5B. I'll try to talk to him about it. But you did say she had a better air game...

//Special Moves//
-(Scarlet Cannon)Can infinite on the weak version of scarlet cannon by itself with quick timing.
-(Fragment Wave)  I love this move artistically and in terms of game play; it has great wakeup potential.

Infinite may be from the remnantsof old juggle system mentioned above.

//Hypers//
(Fierce Tiger's Strength)  I love the idea on this one and it's well balanced in terms of the concept.  Not so certain I would use it over Roc's fist for an equal amount of power and guaranteed setups, but I didn't go crazy testing this out since normal ground combos were difficult.

Yea, this one's a risky move. It's as good as the combo you're able to pull off with it. Otherwise, just stick to Roc's fist.

I love the attention to detail on both her and Lie.  You guys are paying attention to frame data and recovery which not every does.  Thanks for the release and I look forward to their future updates.

I'll be honest, I'm pretty iffy about taking any credit about this. Hong's recent overhaul was entirely Rice's doing, I had no involvement in Hong, just Lie. As for Lie, I merely started the balancing process from the original Lie which was VERY cheap with some questionable decisions even Rice himself regrets doing. Even Lie's more recent updates have been Rice's doing, I've become more of a consultant/beta tester for him.

[RicePigeon]

To be fair, some of your ideas for Lie were used (namely the axe kick).

But yeah, Hong was entirely my doing.

//Normal Moves//
-The weak attack (A by your notation) has too much push back preventing natural combos.  i.e. A>B>C>special (Also see medium attack)
-The medium attack (B by your notation) is awkward and prevents natural combos. Even though it chains with C; Changing it to Back+B or removing the launch properties would be nicer.  This move can also juggle indefinitely by itself.

Already aware of the pushback issue. As far as her B normal is concerned, it was based off of Yun's close medium kick, which has similar properties (as do some of their specials).

//Special Moves//
-(Scarlet Cannon)Can infinite on the weak version of scarlet cannon by itself with quick timing.

Already aware of the Scarlet Cannon infinite. Will be addressed in next update.