what really grinds my gears: rendering and cropping

[Rage]

Why do people mix these terms up. Even professionals do it. people use the term render in place of cropping. cropping is removing unwanted parts of a picture. Such as background, and objects. Rendering is the process of creating.  In all definitions rendering core meaning its that. So why. Wtf

[-Whiplash-]

Can you give an example. I can't imagine anyone being this stupid.

[Rage]

Can you give an example. I can't imagine anyone being this stupid.

really!?  the gfx section is littered with them.

 http://www.infinitymugenteam.com/Forum_345/index.php?topic=36702.0

Sorry to use your topic as an example buddy.

[SanjiSasuke]

Ah, I understand what you mean. The thing is a "render" (noun) is now used as the term people use for things like this:

It has come to mean something entirely removed from a BG to either a single color BG or transparency. (technically the example is already "rendered").
Probably came from 3D renders (single pictures which would indeed have no BG) being used so often. The 3D rendering of the subject would be correct usage, and I guess context made the word a new meaning.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i can definetly say i was lost when i found out here about renders  when i kept hearing "rendering " and then saw what it was. i was like confused. mostly just either HD pics with the BG's cut out and graphical effects  added. In Gimp ( and now i got photoshop  ) and even in paint you take images and all you do is crop out the unwanted parts. thats whats called Cropping. I remember rendering when i took up Architecture,for a part in the class it was about creating 3D models in CGI of houses using mock buildings made out of cardboard.  . true rendering can be a bit more complex. I love CGI but hated tryin to make stuff in it. . i need a ton of practice these years done went by. Yeesh!

i actually went back and looked up the differences and a Render is still called a Render  like this is a real Render of an object:

(click to show/hide)

the person used a basketball and rendered it in this color scheme and high calibur graphic effects. 
Cropping it would be pretty much editing/taking away any BG and other stuff in the pic other than the rendered ball itself. Hmm i wonder if i can make that!

then again.. i am slightly smart retarded so pay me no mind.

[Rage]

Ah, I understand what you mean. The thing is a "render" (noun) is now used as the term people use for things like this:

It has come to mean something entirely removed from a BG to either a single color BG or transparency. (technically the example is already "rendered").
Probably came from 3D renders (single pictures which would indeed have no BG) being used so often. The 3D rendering of the subject would be correct usage, and I guess context made the word a new meaning.

there is no new meaning. Even in 3d. Its used in 3d by saying let me render this our I'm going to render that. And you get a image like the one you showed or one with a bg. Its doesn't matter its still same its a process of creating. this too is a 3d render. Its the only difference is that model you posted is in a empty scene.

Lando is right. He to was lost by people using is wrong.  I too took classes and there was never a mix up.

now if you do more then just crop the image color, shade, or alter it in some manner then that's rendering......

The bad thing about the example you posted. I I do believe people could be that dumb....

[Acey]

i can definetly say i was lost when i found out here about renders  when i kept hearing "rendering " and then saw what it was. i was like confused. mostly just either HD pics with the BG's cut out and graphical effects  added.

Me too!

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

  i think Rage i know what the problem is with all that. people tend to use the word "Render " to describe the outcome of the creation instead of using it as the process of creating the art just like you said .They dont wanna say Cropping  for some strange reason ( maybe to them it sounds like a cheap way or lazy so they say render cause it sound more technical ehh who cares , it gets the job done! ) but may not understand that even cropping takes some cool skill to do it perfectly and have all the lines and segments cropped really perfect, heck i am still learning to use that tool you showed me more to make croppings better .

Plus now learning and practicing to use the smudging feature better ( used that on the Power Girl In Flight pic i done) and then learn again how to apply new techniques.  I would much rather say "I rendered this in photoshop" ( using the actual rendering techniques) vs saying "i made this Render".

[Rage]

i think Rage i know what the problem is with all that. people tend to use the word "Render " to describe the outcome of the creation instead of using it as the process of creating the art just like you said .They dont wanna say Cropping  for some strange reason ( maybe to them it sounds like a cheap way or lazy so they say render cause it sound more technical ehh who cares , it gets the job done! ) but may not understand that even cropping takes some cool skill to do it perfectly and have all the lines and segments cropped really perfect, heck i am still learning to use that tool you showed me more to make croppings better .

Plus now learning and practicing to use the smudging feature better ( used that on the Power Girl In Flight pic i done) and then learn again how to apply new techniques.  I would much rather say "I rendered this in photoshop" ( using the actual rendering techniques) vs saying "i made this Render".

that in and of it's self sounds plausible. But its a simple task people love to over complicate. Its was among the first things I learned in photo class. You can crop, big whoop. I know kids that can do that.

I'm not taking shots I anyone here. I'm just ranting. But really? Cropping and rendering.

I'm going to take this topic to gfx forum and see if I can get banned.

It'll a little thing but it bothers me. Its like working at burger king and saying your a chief.

[R.I.C.O - Twon]

It's jargon. Kind of hard to get upset at that, at least for me. But, to tickle the discussion. . .

"Rendering," in computer graphics, refers to the process of creating an image from models. Going along with that, "render" - as a noun, which it isn't - is just the act of rendering. Mind blown. So in actuality, plenty of folks even use the term "render" wrong when they are trying to use it correctly. You can find an example of this on this page.

If you want to get into etymology and all that hoopla, "cropping" - as a verb - originally refers to the process of cutting off the heads of plants. However, like I said before, we are rumbling about jargon; and like the "rendering" of your gritted gears, "cropping" is also a term related to a specific field: Photography.

In Photography, "cropping" is just the removal of unwanted pieces from an image. It has to do with composition and framing - not with using a selection tool to remove the background of an image. Just take a look at Photoshop's (or any other program for that matter) crop tool. Photoshop's tool names usually come from traditional photography techniques. The crop tool is one of them, and you cannot remove a background with it. You can only adjust the framing. So even saying "Crop the image from the background" is improper usage of the word "crop." This should grind your gears too.

With all that said, you shouldn't call removing a piece of an image from its background "cropping" or "rendering." Also, you can't really call that removed piece a "crop" or a "render." Thing is, no one is going to call it a "removed image from background" or a "selected image with no bg." That is not simple. At some point, someone decided to simplify things and call it a "render." This verbiage is really just found on the net mostly. I've never heard a professional use it personally, nor have I heard one say "crop out" an image.

All in all, this shouldn't bother you - at least not anymore. Certain groups, cultures, and fields use words that have different meanings to them compared to others. Just look at the term "gay." Didn't even have a sexual connotation till hundreds of years ago, and it didn't refer to homosexuals till around the early 90s. Words and their meanings just happen.

[DEMONKAI]

It's jargon. Kind of hard to get upset at that, at least for me. But, to tickle the discussion. . .

"Rendering," in computer graphics, refers to the process of creating an image from models. Going along with that, "render" - as a noun, which it isn't - is just the act of rendering. Mind blown. So in actuality, plenty of folks even use the term "render" wrong when they are trying to use it correctly. You can find an example of this on this page.

If you want to get into etymology and all that hoopla, "cropping" - as a verb - originally refers to the process of cutting off the heads of plants. However, like I said before, we are rumbling about jargon; and like the "rendering" of your gritted gears, "cropping" is also a term related to a specific field: Photography.

In Photography, "cropping" is just the removal of unwanted pieces from an image. It has to do with composition and framing - not with using a selection tool to remove the background of an image. Just take a look at Photoshop's (or any other program for that matter) crop tool. Photoshop's tool names usually come from traditional photography techniques. The crop tool is one of them, and you cannot remove a background with it. You can only adjust the framing. So even saying "Crop the image from the background" is improper usage of the word "crop." This should grind your gears too.

With all that said, you shouldn't call removing a piece of an image from its background "cropping" or "rendering." Also, you can't really call that removed piece a "crop" or a "render." Thing is, no one is going to call it a "removed image from background" or a "selected image with no bg." That is not simple. At some point, someone decided to simplify things and call it a "render." This verbiage is really just found on the net mostly. I've never heard a professional use it personally, nor have I heard one say "crop out" an image.

All in all, this shouldn't bother you - at least not anymore. Certain groups, cultures, and fields use words that have different meanings to them compared to others. Just look at the term "gay." Didn't even have a sexual connotation till hundreds of years ago, and it didn't refer to homosexuals till around the early 90s. Words and their meanings just happen.

well godamn Twon! This dude READS! aw man that was a Huge Gem you dropped. Your boke it down! i actually read all that while eating a hero sandwich like wow...true true . No seriously i did^^ And yeh "Gay" means to be happy actually..... initially in original meaning. But for my own description of that life style i call it computer blue or Balloons

ill break it down one day why i describe it that way.

anyway yeh to render i notice does get mixed up the wrong way. ive been seeing that a lot in the mugen forums but i dont care to debate and explain otherwise. Hopefully folks who were confused on the term are reading this topic here and learning something