Abyss Form 1 Updated (Nearly complete!)

[.:K.I.N.G:.]

and up until Sludge released his I don't recall anyone pissing and moaning about it.

maybe cus some ppl haven't tried yours till sludge released his?
believe it or not i'm one of the ppl who haven't actually even used your separate forms of abyss before sludge released his..that's the first time i try it...so liking this abyss until sludge released his is not true at least for some ppl.
no one here got pissed or moaned.
everyone gave his opinion of the creation.
the better creation will always take over...you have to use the better one in mugen roster
kfm i think you make some really good stages with your mame ripped sprites and artmoney stuff.
no offense but i think you should stick to creating stages instead.

[Kung Fu Man]

BETTER?!

Yes Sludge's is SOOO much better. I never realized how just winging the timing for a character can make it rock so much more, or modifying an attack into something different enough from the original the effectiveness is lost. And let's not forget cornerpush with explod effects that aren't bound to the parent, having cornerpush on a character that shouldn't have cornerpush period, absurd hitboxes, insane speed and end times for many attacks (christ you can even do a youtube comparison and see many things are flatout wrong, and turbo 2 doesn't skip every other tick boys and girls). And I'm not even half started.

Sludge's has all three forms, fine and dandy. I don't give a hot damn. This is not his topic, and there was plenty of feedback left for him at Guild even if it was bitter.

But don't sit there like some goddamn expert Iron Fist and tell me how I should "stick to creating stages instead". I won't f**k*** tolerate that even if you are staff here.

On topic, I've completed the Turbo 2 setting for him. It'll be included in the update as well, for those of you that'd like him to be akin to MvC2's default setting

[Sasuke-kun]

Calm down people...

From what I can see here...
You love to give this kind of criticism that is bad for other creators self esteem but you can't stand it when is it used against you.

Ever heard the phrase "What Goes Around, Comes Around"?

Second Point:
Somehow... What Iron Fist said about that you should stick to create stages only maybe wasn't a good thing to say but ironicly he is saying the truth but I'm going to try to say it on a different way.

Besides Hashimoto...
I haven't seen another good character from you but I think that maybe you are still on a learning process (What is not bad cause nobody is born knowing everything) and you have to add that like you said before...
Got a life outside Mugen like everyone else.

Third...
If you like stuff accurate to their original counterparts... That's fine and nobody should have a problem with it but doesn't mean that you can go here and there destroying other creators self esteem like you do with that kind of criticism.
(As you can see on your own topic... Isn't nice.)

And like you...
Other people will go more with the fun factor instead of accurate convertions and you need to respect that.

You get respect only when you give respect.

And that's all I'm going to say.

PS: RiceZilla... It would be good if you read and try to understand what I posted here too.

[.:K.I.N.G:.]

BETTER?!

Yes Sludge's is SOOO much better. I never realized how just winging the timing for a character can make it rock so much more, or modifying an attack into something different enough from the original the effectiveness is lost. And let's not forget cornerpush with explod effects that aren't bound to the parent, having cornerpush on a character that shouldn't have cornerpush period, absurd hitboxes, insane speed and end times for many attacks (christ you can even do a youtube comparison and see many things are flatout wrong, and turbo 2 doesn't skip every other tick boys and girls). And I'm not even half started.

Sludge's has all three forms, fine and dandy. I don't give a hot damn. This is not his topic, and there was plenty of feedback left for him at Guild even if it was bitter.

But don't sit there like some goddamn expert Iron Fist and tell me how I should "stick to creating stages instead". I won't f**k*** tolerate that even if you are staff here.

On topic, I've completed the Turbo 2 setting for him. It'll be included in the update as well, for those of you that'd like him to be akin to MvC2's default setting

HEY chill i never said i was an expert but i did try your stages and characters.
i don't see whats so bad about me saying that you make some good stages and should stick to that.
i didn't say that your characters suck or anything i only said you made stages better than characters.
besides it dosen't take an expert to favor something over the other.
if i favor your stages i don't have to favor your characters..it's not about me being an expert.
now why are you so pissed? don't you think ppl should stick to what they are better at?

[Kung Fu Man]

Sasuke, criticism I can stand, being told bad I can stand. But I don't walk up to someone's thread and say something like "this SonSon is crap, you're better off with Ryou Win's", especially after the guy clearly put work behind theirs.

I'll take someone sitting there telling me why it's crap if they bother to say what's flawed and needs fixing. I don't think I denied Sludge or countless people that courtesy in entirety. But the whole "it's bad because this one is better" is a useless argument that people can't do a damn thing with.

[ClubSyN-X-TReME]

no offense but i think you should stick to creating stages instead.

OMFG! Iron, you know you dead wrong for that. LMAO!

@Mr. Perfect, Whats wrong with a little fun factor added to your characters accuracy?
I can understand you wanted things to be done close to the original counterpart but hey, Im just asking.

I beg of you don't go into a Rant.

[Kung Fu Man]

Who ever said I was trying to exclude any 'fun factor'? I've been pushing to get feedback what could be done to *add* enjoyment for the damn thing Sinasta. Also please don't do your "insult but then shout 'don't-hit-me!'" song and dance like you just did.

OMFG! Iron, you know you dead wrong for that. LMAO!

And what the heck does that mean?

[ClubSyN-X-TReME]

Damn,

Calm your hot butt down, I just asked a simple question, thats all.

Don't get mad at me since many prefers Sludges version over yours.

Crybaby.

[Megabyte]

  *sigh* Why must I always try to play mediator. Guys, I've been around the Mugen community for a few years now, and though I am NOT a creator or even know how TO create a damn thing, I do like to give feedback and suggestions the best way I can from time to time...basically what KFM said is right. There is nothing wrong with liking one version of something over another...but you can't call saying that one version is better than the other (with only "fun factor" as the arguing point) and call that justified feedback...that's just plain criticism (and in this case negative criticism by the way some of you stated it). It's fine to say that though KFM's is more accurate to the original Sludge's is more fun, but like KFM said, please give some examples as to what could make his more fun (short of basically changing him from what he is into a totally different char with the 3-in-1 thing...that's my opinion anyway

NOTE: KFM was also wrong for some of the stuff he has said...KFM, please try to calm down a bit, dude...the same for the rest of you...I think you guys are getting a little OVER upset

[Kung Fu Man]

Eh, more raising an eyebrow at the as-yet-unexplained quip about my stages. Maybe Sinasta doesn't like them either? Who knows, not sure why I care either however as that's another topic.

Something I didn't mention regarding the turbo2 option: The increased speed option basically is making him harder to fight off than regular, though it'll depend on what character you use against him. It'll still offer no protection though against cheap tactics per se :\

If other moves are added btw, would you rather them be in by default, strictly for the "+" mode, or toggled on or off via options?

[vyn]

Sasuke, criticism I can stand, being told bad I can stand. But I don't walk up to someone's thread and say something like "this SonSon is crap, you're better off with Ryou Win's", especially after the guy clearly put work behind theirs.

I'll take someone sitting there telling me why it's crap if they bother to say what's flawed and needs fixing. I don't think I denied Sludge or countless people that courtesy in entirety. But the whole "it's bad because this one is better" is a useless argument that people can't do a damn thing with.

dude u jsut cant complain ive seen these words "this SonSon is crap, you're better off with Ryou Win's",  come out of ur mouth many times, a couple to myself, kinda hypocrite rly...

your char is obviously more accurate and overall better coded, uve been here 8 years? but sludge is more fun, which translates into better to most people remember only a small portion of the mugen comunity actually knows how mugen stuff is created, and people looking down on u character even tough u put tons of work into it happens to everybody, my hayato went kinda unnoticed and most of the feedback he got was flaming from peeps who dont rly know what they are talking about even tough he was a huge challenge for me to make, im guessing this is a good lesson for ya, this time u are the one on the other side as many creators (most of them new) have been when u try to push ur own definition of better into them,doesnt feel good does it? someone here said "what goes around comes around"

lets stay on topic, the metalic sounds when u hit him would be a good addition

i had no idea u were into valkirye profile, one of my favorite games of all time, the lenneth finisher will be a lot better, will also look more original, mind reminding me what celestial rain was? is it tha sissys bow boy finisher?? or lenneths bow finisher?? i can remember the sound in my head but not the move itself

the melty blood portraits sounds cool, but add fade to them plz it looks like crap when they just appear and dissapear

[ClubSyN-X-TReME]

the melty blood portraits sounds cool, but add fade to them plz it looks like crap when they just appear and dissapear

I was going to suggest that earlier.

If the Port is coded into a helper, a pal fx code should suffice for the fading out.


-Off Topic-

Oh BTW, I never said I had problems with your stages.

[youtube=425,350]MITJtZ7ji5Y[/youtube]
That is one of my vids showcasing your works. If you didn't know I am a fan of your High Res stages and you basically taught me how to make characters identify certain stages for interactivity before I even got started in making them.
(If any of this means anything to you.)

What you quoted was merely Sarcasm towards Iron Fist, so once again, Calm down.

Its not that serious.

[EXCh33ky]

ive never agreed with KFM but despite everyone else I find this Abyss actually good, for someone who plays MvC2 I find its very similar to that version. He may have high defense and high attack but hey its a boss character so why not, especially on how slow he moves and his limited moveset. Sludge did an ok job with his Abyss but KFM is more realistic then Sludges(considering it wasnt fully completed) so thats all I have to say

[yamblack]

ive never agreed with KFM but despite everyone else I find this Abyss actually good, for someone who plays MvC2 I find its very similar to that version. He may have high defense and high attack but hey its a boss character so why not, especially on how slow he moves and his limited moveset. Sludge did an ok job with his Abyss but KFM is more realistic then Sludges(considering it wasnt fully completed) so thats all I have to say

THANK YOU.

[Megabyte]

Eh, more raising an eyebrow at the as-yet-unexplained quip about my stages. Maybe Sinasta doesn't like them either? Who knows, not sure why I care either however as that's another topic.

Something I didn't mention regarding the turbo2 option: The increased speed option basically is making him harder to fight off than regular, though it'll depend on what character you use against him. It'll still offer no protection though against cheap tactics per se :\

If other moves are added btw, would you rather them be in by default, strictly for the "+" mode, or toggled on or off via options?

Me personally I would like them to be defaulted since the ORIGINAL Abyss had such a limited moveset to begin with...

[interlopher]

You know I actually feel a little bad for KFM here. He hasn't always been the nicest guy but this is a bit too much. Anyways here is my critique; this character just needs to be more active. It is way too easy to turtle while he is attacking and slaughter him while he is not. You might want to have him use the throw more often or include a guard crush or something like that.
Also his Charge attack seems a little long, don't know if it is accurate, I will take your word for it as I have never played MvC2 but if you get hit you take too much damage and if you avoid it he is vulnerable for too long.
If I have heard correctly Abyss probably isn't an easy character to make because in the original game he was not exactly a fan favorite. I have heard a lot of criticism about him being too easy to beat. That may be part of the reason your Abyss is being poorly received.

[Megabyte]

With Charlie and Guile all I have to do is basically the three hit trip combo into a Flashkick (Somersault) wash-rinse-repeat...there is one glitch in the original though that I am hoping doesn't show up in KFM (or even Sludge's for that matter) where when he does the Grand Train move, if you try to hit him from behind, you would get hit...I think the move is a 8-13 hitter from the from and if you try to hit him from behind during it, you'll get caught every other hit...the one wrench in my tactics against him

[Kung Fu Man]

I am hoping doesn't show up in KFM (or even Sludge's for that matter) where when he does the Grand Train move, if you try to hit him from behind, you would get hit...

That isn't a bug actually, that's just your character connecting with his attack hitboxes: you eat a hit because it's still a special attack, and he doesn't flinch

[Warcueid]

Really liking this abyss KFM.

Feedback:
-I think his "Horn Throw" Attack is a little too slow, sorry I can't recall the original. It just feels slow to me.
-I think his beam attack comes out too slow when hes being hit(at least I think so, sorry can't really recall MvC2, sorry.) maybe speeding it up a little would be good. He really is open for a large amount of time. The cheapies could really get him bad during this move.

All I have for now, sorry for the lack of more. Really like the transparency on the effects.

[MGMURROW]

[quote author=Kung Fu Man link=topic=6826.msg84088#msg84088 date=1196348788
If other moves are added btw, would you rather them be in by default, strictly for the "+" mode, or toggled on or off via options?
[/quote]

KFM, add the moves by default it = better gameplay

MGMURROW

[thepacifist]

I dunno, but I like having different version.  I like KFM's and I like Sludge's in different ways. Some things in the world move slow and its nice to have a version of the character that is closer to the arcade for those going for that feel.

KFM, I like the improvements on this one and am looking forward to the other tweaks you've been mentioning.  Your abyss was the first non-Marvel/DC character to make it into my roster cause he makes a great boss (especially if you increase his vital stats to make him more durable).

Anyhow, I did want to report a bug/error message that I caught as I pit the two Abysses (Abii?) together. I haven't yet seen this in any other match, but usually those other matches don't involve two immovable objects.    The error is as follows:

State Machine stuck in loop (stopped after 2500 loops): 1100 for Abyss
Check your states for infinite ChangeState loops.

Not sure what's causing that, but if you know how to fix, please let me know.

Thanks again for working on Abyss!

[Kung Fu Man]

Yeah that's a fault on my end, I fixed it on the copy I have on hand, just since that one particular attack isn't completed yet and I haven't finished a few other planned bits (college finals blow), but I'll tend to it when I can.