Need help for inputting multiple images for my own stage

[Toki of Time]

Hello everybody, i've been on IMT for 4 years and i haven't posted anything because of the rules, but now, i fully understand all of the rules. My name is kanodoom, and i'm the only Serbian guy that i'm interested to create my own stage.

First of all, i've started to create my own stage a week ago, which i don't want to reveal my very first stage yet, so yeah. I ran into the problems when i was using FFC (Fighter Factory Classic), whenever i try to input multiple images background (only the first one is fine), the color palette messes up every time i duplicate the other background (the second one totally messed up), and i can't save as .sff each time when i click save as .sff. How am i supposed to work with that properly without messing the palette up? Thanks.

PS: If it needs some attachments what is the problem i have said, i'll attach it (edit) my topic. Again, thank you.

[ELECTRO]

Palettes don't work for stages so save without sharing palette and the sprite won't look funky. So for starters add a new Image into the SFF and make sure SHARED PALETTE box is unchecked as well as give it a proper Group and Image NUMBER. For saving the SFF I would look at the top options and click SPRITES/SAVE AS.../then navigate to the SFF you opened originally and click it once/Then click SAVE/Overwrite YES/then click check box INDIVIDUAL PALETTE/hit OK.

That's it your done!

[Toki of Time]

Image number is what gives me the trouble each time when i duplicate it and the second background messes the palette up. The thing is though, there's each piece of a background that i'm supposed to input is the PCX's, does this mean i can't touch Image name when i save the first .SFF file?

[DarkValentine]

When it comes to putting in multiple images, you need to know that the Group numbers are a little picky, but very accurate. Let me explain, since I make stages in FFC, I can help you with this better.

When inserting an image, you are faced with two primary numbers for a group number. The default is 0 for both.

Looks something like the following example below, taken from my "Ballpark Brawl" stage:

Code: [Select]

[BG Black]
type = normal
spriteno = 1, 0  <-------
start = -160, 0
layerno = 0
delta = 0, 0
mask = 0

The left number, is the starting Group Number (Primary). You can use whatever number you want, but it is often best to start with Group Order 1 for the left, if you plan on inserting it. This works fine for just single, non-animated layers.

If you plan on animating layers of a stage with multiple images, it would need to look like the following, in the example below, again, using my stage as an example:

Code: [Select]

[BG Flash]
type = anim <------
[u]actionno[/u] = 5
layerno = 0
start = 0, 0
delta = .10, .30
mask = 1

[BG Flash2]
type = anim <-----
[u]actionno[/u] = 6
layerno = 0
start = 0, 0
delta = .10, .30
mask = 1

[Begin Action 5]
5,0,0,0, 10   <---------
5,1,0,0, 10

[Begin Action 6]
5,0,0,0, 14       <--------
5,1,0,0, 14

I put arrows in these key parts, to help identify what I'm saying. Especially for the second part above. In that stage, I had only one flashing animation, with just two images. I gave them group number 5, but had to use 5,0 and 5,1 respectively.

MUGEN reads all image layers as groups. Only images within that group, will use THAT particular area of the palette & coding line, so it will work as intended. This applies for both characters & stages alike. If you have say for instance, 10 images, and you want all 10 to animate. you would need to use the following below

Code: [Select]

Group Order
5,0  <---- (Starting Image Layer - First Image)
5,1
5,2
5,3
5,4                     <------- (All other numbers should represent the order you put them in)
5,5
5,6
5,7
5,8
5,9
It should only be sequential, if you plan on having it that way. You also have to make sure you are saving the SFF properly. Whenever you add something to the SFF file, on the first save, it will ask you what type you want to save it in. and explains what the types do. One of the options is reserved for stages. More than likely, it is individual at best. do NOT use the Shared palette option. Shared palette only works for Characters.

Remember this golden rule: If adding images to the SFF, and they are going to be animated, make SURE you add them in on the same group number, but different order. Use my mini-guide above for better assistance.


Hope this helps.

DV

[Toki of Time]

So as i see, it is without the animation to have multiple layers. However, animations requires some help for me to understand it and i simply don't get that yet, or i'm little confused about the animations. But hopefully, i'll understand how to input the multiple backgrounds with no animations when using FFC. Tips added, DarkValentine.

PS: BTW, are you from YouTube that i heard about you sometime ago, DarkValentine? I've possibly watched your video of Contra the Hard Corps in Japanese version.

EDIT: 2 zero's are the spriteno's: One for the group and one for the images. If i want to use the image like, for example, Wall 2 (which is my work that i'm trying to figure out how to put the image back when there's a ground in the first number image like Ground 3). I'm not sure if you understand me very well, Valentine, cause it's sometimes hard to understand what am i saying.

[DarkValentine]

So as i see, it is without the animation to have multiple layers. However, animations requires some help for me to understand it and i simply don't get that yet, or i'm little confused about the animations. But hopefully, i'll understand how to input the multiple backgrounds with no animations when using FFC. Tips added, DarkValentine.

PS: BTW, are you from YouTube that i heard about you sometime ago, DarkValentine? I've possibly watched your video of Contra the Hard Corps in Japanese version.

Yes, I am indeed the very same person. Same guy who does a lot of Retro gameplays. Same guy who has done the Team DV & City Lights MUGEN series (City Lights is now a finished series btw), and as of recent, got into doing streaming and whatnot. And as of yesterday, I'm now a YouTube partner. thanks to The Gamer Nation, and all of those Max Payne 3 multiplayer videos I've done, as well as the streaming I've done.

Getting back on topic, if you need to understand how it works, simply look at a stage that has already been created. You are more than welcome to look into any of the stages I've already made, and use them as reference.

http://dvmugen.theostlobby.net/

Winmugen++ Stages (Retro)  > W.V.B.A. Minor Circuit stage.

You can open that stage, and look at it for reference. The entire thing is one moving animation.

Edit 1: I do understand what you are saying, and want to do. I've made multi-layer & multiple animation based stages before. And I know it can be a pain & hassle to get right, but I believe you'll be fine. Just know that anything at the very bottom of the DEF file, the last line of coding, is always the foreground. Anything at the top, where you first put your coding, is going to be the background. I'll make it easier, by putting another example in here. Look at the example below:

Code: [Select]

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; DarkValentine presents:
; "Raptor's Hall - X-Kaliber 2097"
; Original SNES Edited Stage
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Info]
name="Raptor's Hall"
author="DarkValentine"

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Camera]
startx = 0
starty = 0
boundleft = -606
boundright = 606
boundhigh = -15
boundlow = 0
verticalfollow = 1
floortension = 90
tension = 30
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[PlayerInfo]
p1startx = -70
p1starty = 0
p1startz = 0
p1facing = 1
p2startx = 70
p2starty = 0
p2startz = 0
p2facing = -1
leftbound = -1000
rightbound = 1000
topbound = 0
botbound = 0
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Scaling]
topz = 0
botz = 50
topscale = 1
botscale = 1.2
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Bound]
screenleft = 15
screenright = 15
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[StageInfo]
zoffset = 205
autoturn = 1
resetBG = 1
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Shadow]
color = 32,32,32
yscale = .2
reflect = 0
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Music]
bgmusic =
bgvolume = 255
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[BGdef]
spr = stages/raptorhall.sff
debugbg = 0
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[BG Back]
type = normal
spriteno = 2, 0
layerno = 0      <-----(the first BG line, is the background image)
start = 0, 0
delta = .15, .5
mask = 0


[BG Front]
type = normal
spriteno = 1, 0   <-----(Everything after the first BG line, is considered the "floor" unless you have objects)
layerno = 0
start = 0, 0
delta = 1, 1
mask = 1

[BG Kama Stand 1]
type = normal
spriteno = 5, 0
layerno = 0
start = -603, 80
delta = 1, 1
mask = 1

[BG Kama Stand 2]
type = normal
spriteno = 5, 0
layerno = 0
start = -310, 80
delta = 1, 1
mask = 1

[BG Kama Stand 3]
type = normal
spriteno = 5, 0
layerno = 0
start = 272, 80
delta = 1, 1
mask = 1

[BG Kama Stand 4]
type = normal
spriteno = 5, 0
layerno = 0
start = 552, 80
delta = 1, 1
mask = 1

[BG Kama 1]
type = anim
actionno = 6
start = -602, 80
layerno = 0
mask = 1
delta = 1,1

[Begin Action 6]
6,0,0,0,5
6,1,0,0,5
6,2,0,0,5
6,3,0,0,5
6,4,0,0,5
6,5,0,0,5
6,6,0,0,5
6,7,0,0,5

[BG Kama 2]
type = anim
actionno = 6
start = -309, 80
layerno = 0
mask = 1
delta = 1,1

[Begin Action 6]
6,0,0,0,5
6,1,0,0,5
6,2,0,0,5
6,3,0,0,5
6,4,0,0,5
6,5,0,0,5
6,6,0,0,5
6,7,0,0,5

[BG Kama 3]
type = anim
actionno = 6
start = 273, 80
layerno = 0
mask = 1
delta = 1,1

[Begin Action 6]
6,0,0,0,5
6,1,0,0,5
6,2,0,0,5
6,3,0,0,5
6,4,0,0,5
6,5,0,0,5
6,6,0,0,5
6,7,0,0,5

[BG Kama 4]
type = anim
actionno = 6
start = 553, 80
layerno = 0
mask = 1
delta = 1,1

[Begin Action 6]
6,0,0,0,5
6,1,0,0,5
6,2,0,0,5
6,3,0,0,5
6,4,0,0,5
6,5,0,0,5
6,6,0,0,5
6,7,0,0,5

[bg fog]
type = normal
spriteno = 3,0
start = 0, 0
layerno = 0
delta = 0.3, 0.9
mask = 1
trans = add
tile = 1, 0
tilespacing = 0, 200
velocity = -0.7.5, 0

[BG post]
type = normal
spriteno = 4,0
start = 0, 0
delta = 1.5, 0.90
mask = 1
layerno = 0
trans = none
tile = 10, 0

[BG post]
type = normal
spriteno = 4,0
start = 0, 0
delta = 1.5, 0.90
mask = 1
layerno = 0
trans = sub
tile = 10, 0

[BG post]
type = normal
spriteno = 4,0
start = 0, 0
delta = 1.5, 0.90   <-------(The last BG Line, is the foreground, unless you use this as the floor)
mask = 1
layerno = 1
trans = add
tile = 10, 0

Had to use my Raptor's Hall stage def, as a prime example. To really see what I mean, just look at the video.


You can get the stage, and study it if you like. This is how I ended up learning how to make stages.

Spriteno, is associated with the group order and group image. if it's an animation, you have to use the anim tag. as spriteno does not work for it.

[Toki of Time]

I see.

Let me get this straight... If you saw my Edit on my last post i've said about the 2 numbers (you know, 1st number is for the group, the 2nd number is the image), some people may lead to confusion when they open the other stages such as OnslaughtMVC (Which is used as a final boss when playing in arcade mode) and see some images such as BG City, which is set as image 1, not the group 1, which is kinda hard. Sometimes it needs some help if i'm confused about the other stages.

[DarkValentine]

That itself depends on the complexity of the stage in general. Not every stage will be like this. The best, and most sure way of getting your desired results is to still observe, and study the way the stage is made for someone else. Observe how it is arranged in the SFF, and also done in the DEF. To make it more simple for you, try and start with something small, but easier for you to handle.

There are some that have issues with stage layers giving off the "hall of mirrors effect, where the color palettes mess up completely. Sometimes, it is by chance, the transparent color was never chosen for that image. There are a number of factors, all of which require a level of experimentation.

This is the very reason why my stages are always available to edit as you see fit.

I also have the OnslaughtMVC stage. And the person who made it, decided to not use the group number, but image number. However, separating it on each line instead. That stage is not animated.

here is the DEF:

Code: [Select]

;=====<MAIN BG DEFINITION>=====
[BGdef]
spr=stages/Onslaught.sff
debugbg=0

[BG safety]
type=normal
spriteno=0,99
layerno=0
start=0,0
delta=0,0
mask=0
tile=1,1
tilespacing=0,0

[BG space]
type=normal
spriteno=0,2
layerno=0
start=0,240
delta=.45,.725

[BG city]
type=normal
spriteno=0,1
layerno=0
start=0,240
delta=.4,.87
mask=1

[BG antenna]
type=normal
spriteno=0,3
layerno=0
start=0,240
delta=1,1
mask=1

[BG floor]
type=normal
spriteno=0,0
layerno=0
start=0,240
delta=1,1
mask=1
P.o.t.S has his own way of making the stages, to the system that works best for him. While it makes sense to use both group & order numbers together, it is not necessary to do so. However, if you choose to never use group number, and stick with order number, then you need to make sure that, like int eh OnslaughtMVC stage, it is set up individually. And if you have to make an animated layer, you will have to use a number that isn't being used for group.

Example: If everything you're already using is group order 0, like your floor, objects and other stuff, but you want the wall to be animated, you need to put the wall as group order 1. It's not as hard as it sounds. The order of the SFF doesn't matter, it's how you list it in the DEF that matters. look at the coded area real close. you'll see what I mean.

If you need a clearer shot of what I'm saying, then peek into this link below.
http://www.infinitymugenteam.com/infinity.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stage_Creation_Tutorial

[Toki of Time]

Ahaaaaaaa, so the wall will have to be animated by one, and won't move. I get it. In some notes on the DEF, i noticed that there's a mask for the BG's, which must means something that, after the first round against Onslaught is defeated, the pop up screen that says "Now behold my true power" and something like that in the second round, all of the backgrounds are little darker, which, somehow, i don't know about this yet, but i'll need to figure that out. I'm assuming it is the brightnesses when you face Onslaught in the second round, so i think i get that point.

[DarkValentine]

the mask line in the DEF is mostly used to enable whatever color you're using in that image, to be transparent. So it wouldn't appear as a solid wall, and obstruct your view. Setting it to 0, or just not having it there, makes it work as a foreground item, or a solid image. I have a few stages that utilize the mask code line.

What you are referring to, as far as Onslaught himself, is built in on the character. Some characters have specific effects that are either unique to just that stage, or based by how said character was created & developed over time. All of which, is a personal choice by the creator in question.

You can use the mask code line on any of the BG lines. if the anim line is used, mask is already transparent by default. Unless you did not add the correct color for transparency. If you ever need help with that, I made a thread about it here on IMT.

http://www.infinitymugenteam.com/Forum_345/index.php?topic=39289.0

I'll have to hit the sack now, getting late on my end. Good luck.

[Toki of Time]

Got it. I think i'll understand it for now. Tips added, Dark Valentine.

[Toki of Time]

Sorry, double post.

Ok, this is started to gettin' annoying right now. I thought at first, the first and second palette won't mess it up when i add the other backgrounds when i click "Sprites" and click add to add another backgrounds i have created when i have opened FFC. However, the group number doesn't say 1, only 0, so i didn't understand it very well, and sometimes it is causing me a lot of problems, and needs some practice to fully understand it. It didn't helped me, sorry. ^^;
Maybe i should've payed more attention to understand more, and i should probably add a video what am i doing, even doing on join.me. If not, then i can't create my own stage, i suck. XP And sorry, if i'm being annoying by some moderators who don't like this thread at all. ^^; Hope you guys can understand me.

EDIT: I will have to lock this thread, i'll need to make a new thread than the 1st one i had.